User talk:Toughpigs
I miss you That is all. -- Peter (talk) 15:08, 25 September 2006 (UTC) Blocks Say, what is going on with the blockings? In light of floating AOL IPs, should we start setting the limits for, say, two weeks, or something? -- Andrew Leal (talk) 14:21, 25 September 2006 (UTC) :Yeah, that's what I've started doing. I actually talked to somebody here at school who tried to do a test edit and found out his IP was blocked. Now, if he'd tried again ten minutes later, it probably wouldn't have been, but he just figured that he was blocked and gave up. :So I'm trying to do just a week or two -- a month if it's clearly a lunatic. That's enough to make the person go away, but then leave the IP clear for somebody else to come along later. I'm also going through and unblocking some of the old user name policy folks. -- Danny (talk) 14:32, 25 September 2006 (UTC) ::I figured it was something like that. We should make sure the other admins know, though. And I'm assuming this only applies to cases where it blocks the IP and not the username, right? -- Andrew Leal (talk) 14:35, 25 September 2006 (UTC) :::Yeah, and only for "User name" violations. If it's a vandal, then just block infinite for now. -- Danny (talk) 16:48, 25 September 2006 (UTC) Picture Placement Hey buddy, just a quick question about picture placement. When it comes to pages for songs, pictures go above the credits template box, and when it comes to episodes it goes underneath? I think Dinosaurs episodes have it between the performer info and the unisaur template...I'm just curious about proper placement because I'm going to do a good number of TMS caps from the season 1 box and I'd like to do it right the first time kinda thing (on this, a day that should be made a national holiday). =) --Cantus Rock 19:13, 24 September 2006 (UTC) :I'm not Danny, but characters are always between the performer and pattern/designer template. The others, we've actually been pretty inconsistent on. Peter insists that songs should have the song box on top, and Danny, I've noticed you often reverse that. This might be something worth discussing in current events. In general, though, episodes are fairly standardized, with the image beneath the episode template. See all Farscape episodes, for example. And if you look at Category:Muppet Show Episodes, you'll see they use that format. You might want to browse through that, in fact, and see which pages most need images. Most have at least one or more, whether screengrabs or publicity stills, and that's usually enough. But Episode 123: Kaye Ballard, for example, has nothing, and we could use a Muppet related image of Kaye Ballard herself (Joe uploaded a lot of generic celebrity images to fill in the blanks, but if possible, we like to use ones from Muppet/Henson productions). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 19:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC) ::I've been following the episodes here while watching my set today, which is how I noticed the difference between the song pages and episode pages. And yeah, I assume all pictures here that don't have Muppets in them are placeholders until production pics are uploaded to replace them. --Cantus Rock 20:12, 24 September 2006 (UTC) ::Looking through a little more specifically, perhaps there should be a discussion on the placement regarding song pages, being that articles like Episode 102 have songs within that episode that differ in style. --Cantus Rock 20:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC) :::I disagree that TMS episodes only need one picture. I think it's nice to have more, but I love having pictures. As for the picture placement on various types of pages, I just forget which is which sometimes. -- Danny (talk) 10:06, 25 September 2006 (UTC) ::::I'm putting song boxes on top, since the page is clearly made for song information. And most of the pictures on these pages are screencaps and fit nicely on the screen underneath. It think books are the only ones where we're putting the box underneath the picture, since the pictures are, as a rule, much larger and would get cut off if the box were on top. Am I making sense? -- Peter (talk) 14:56, 25 September 2006 (UTC) :::::Makes sense to me. I have no real preferance, but I do think it should be standardized, so if pics under the box is the norm for everything but books, sounds like a plan to me. --Cantus Rock 16:02, 25 September 2006 (UTC) September 24 Great to see that added, but I'm glad you left out the non-Muppet things. It seemed bizarre to suddenly mention Kevin Sorbo if he has no Muppet connection. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 17:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC) :Yeah, naturally. Who needs non-Muppet people? -- Danny (talk) 17:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC) ::If they were really so important, they'd find a way to connect themselves to the Muppets. Peter just pointed out to me that, through Tickle Me Elmo, John Gotti Jr. is now Muppet relevant. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 17:24, 24 September 2006 (UTC) :::I know, I noticed that too. Eventually, everybody is Muppet-relevant; we just have to find out how! -- Danny (talk) 17:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC) ::::Did I tell you that Ronald Reagan randomly appeared, via film clips, in Muppet Babies? And there's enough references to the HUAC hearings to make either a page on that or better yet on Joseph P. McCarthy worth creating. Yeah, slowly but surely, everything in the Universe can be defined according to its Muppet relevance! -- Andrew Leal (talk) 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC) :::::Sweet. You don't know this, but I'm completely fascinated with McCarthy. We need a McCarthy page for sure. -- Danny (talk) 17:36, 24 September 2006 (UTC) ::::::Plus, we can then connect him to Charlie McCarthy! In the meantime, enjoy Sir Francis Drake. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 17:44, 24 September 2006 (UTC) :::::::Yikes! I love it. You're the king of References. -- Danny (talk) 18:02, 24 September 2006 (UTC) Listen to the Cornstarch Still rough, but since you're actually around today, I wanted to share Old-time radio. Still need to make that Bob and Ray page, and I belatedly realized that, since archival audio of his voice was used in both The Flintstones and The Flintstones in Viva Rock Vegas, we have a legitimate excuse to add Mel Blanc (who also connects via The Ronald McDonald All-Star Party). -- Andrew Leal (talk) 20:07, 23 September 2006 (UTC) :Oh, that's fantastic. Another gem in the Andrew Leal crown. Good job digging up the Dreamchild and Muppet Babies references! I haven't seen Dreamchild in a decade or so, and I would never have remembered that. The link to Cabby is also a nice flourish. The Connections section is really well-researched. I just love it when you bust out with an article like this. -- Danny (talk) 20:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC) Main Page Vandal Hey, Danny. I wanted to make sure you knew to block this guy for vandalizing the main page. -- Mary Catherine (talk) 14:09, 19 September 2006 (UTC) :Thank you! It looks like Andrew took care of it. I'm glad you caught it and reverted the page! -- Danny (talk) 15:32, 19 September 2006 (UTC) Hello Again Hello Danny, I joined as Baba and i would like to make things right by helping and adding some 300 x 200 pixel pictures to the Muppet Wikia. Could i make a deal with you if i add pictures and help the Jim Henson and Wembley articals for the rest of 2006 would you let me add a artical about our forum. I will not be hurting but helping the articals in need of a person to help them along. Phillip Friedrich, P.S. Oh, I would also love to have my Baba account unbanned and i will be changing some things on my user page but i will keep every thing on a positve state. Please forgive me. Animated Voices Say, remember our discussion over Olan Soule and how much attention to give people who worked on minor animated inserts? Well, now I'm wavering, since apart from debating whether or not to add Howard Morris (who voiced Jughead Jones and who connects to everything from Mel Brooks and Sid Caesar to Baywatch and Winnie the Pooh), I found a letter H insert had Arnold Stang voicing the mad scientist. Both Morris and Stang, while never stars, are semi-celebrities (and genuine celebrities at various times in their careers); apart from voice work, both did tons of on-camera stuff, Morris directed movies, and Stang received top billing over Arnold Schwarzenegger in Hercules in New York. What more could you ask? Both of which would be more interesting than Sean Sanders. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 03:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC) :Yeah, if you want to put 'em in Animated Voice Actors, go ahead. Obviously, you have lots to say about them, and Howard Morris connects to Jughead, who is a genuine celebrity. :) -- Danny (talk) 13:35, 17 September 2006 (UTC) ::Morris is done. I may have gone a bit overboard, but there's lots of neat connections to other actors/shows, the fact he once voiced Beetle Bailey (though not on Sesame), and I like trotting out the reason he was replaced as Atom Ant, telling Joe Barbera to do something "anatomically impossible." -- Andrew Leal (talk) 18:27, 17 September 2006 (UTC) Animal Show Sheesh. This guy keeps coming back, with multiple IPs. He's not a vandal, just completely incomprehensible, which isn't much better. And there appears as if there might be some decent info in at least every other edit, but it's tough as heck to decipher. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC) :Yeah, it's a pain. Nothin' to do but keep reverting and blocking until he goes away. -- Danny (talk) 23:46, 16 September 2006 (UTC) Around the World Hey! Cool poster, and neat that you dug up specific credits. But it brings the question again of how to handle features where the Creature Shop just did digital effects, and generally vague digitial effects (i.e. water movements or general digital touch ups and so on). Judging from the redlinks, does that mean Jackie Chan would now count as a Creature Shop actor? Because if that's the case, I will want to go ahead and create that Gosford Park page, and thus fit Maggie Smith into the Wiki. And that raises the question, then, of whether Batman Begins should then have a seperate page. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 15:57, 16 September 2006 (UTC) :I think the pages belong on the wiki. How to categorize them is another question -- do we want to make a distinction between movies where the Creature Shop created creatures vs movies where they just did digital effects? Would we put them in separate categories? -- Danny (talk) 16:01, 16 September 2006 (UTC) ::It's not the movie pages so much as the actors that make me wonder. Is Arnold Schwarzenegger a Creature Shop Actor because his brief scene might have included digitally enhanced wind or colors? I know that's how we handle actors in the other Creature Shop films with actual animatronics or puppets or major creatures, not nitpicking over whether so and so appeared in the scene with the talking pig or not, but it feels off here. I'd feel better if they were just in celebrities. As for the movies themselves, that's a smaller point to me. They are aall Creature Shop Movies in the sense that the Creature Shop as an entity worked on them, not as movies with Creatures, and that's how that category should work, I think. Although a Digital Effects Movies category might not hurt; there'd be enough to fit in it. We already have MirrorMask'' (and Nightmares & Dreamscapes, but that's TV, not even a TV movie), plus at least half a dozen films. And even then, it raises a question of whether a distinction should be made between actual digital charactyers (Five Children and It) and just all purpose matting effects or whatnot. So personally, I'd leave the movie category as is. My only concern is dealing with the actors and crew and such. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 16:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC) :::I dunno. If the definition of Creature Shop Actors is an actor who appeared in a movie with effects by the Creature Shop, then Schwarzenegger is a Creature Shop Actor. -- Danny (talk) 16:12, 16 September 2006 (UTC) ::::Yeah, that's tricky. I guess we either subdivide, and create an awkwardly titled Digital Effects Actors subgrouping, or just leave as is. It just galls me somehow, especially in cases, like Batman Begins, where the Creature Shop is the seventh of 8 effects houses; it does allow for a flood of celebrities and more actor connections, but it almost feels like cheating. And seems a little misleading, but I guess the same could be said about some of the folks in there now. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 16:15, 16 September 2006 (UTC) :::::Well, the fun part of the Celebrities category (for me, at least) is seeing how everybody ultimately connects back to the Muppets somehow. So I think it's cool to have Schwarzenegger and Jackie Chan on the wiki. I don't think it's misleading -- the pages will explain the connection. The only way it's "cheating" is if you have some kind of Platonic ideal of a Creature Shop Actor in your head. -- Danny (talk) 16:21, 16 September 2006 (UTC) ::::::I don't have any Platonic ideal, or Plutonic either. And I guess I shouldn't complain, since it does mean Maggie Smith gets her own page (for this and the first Harry Potter film; and on that one, at least, we actually know what the Creature Shop did, the troll scene and other stuff, and some minor puppetry was involved). On the other hand, it also means we must now create a page for Are We There Yet? But then again, is that really any worse than Mother Goose Stories in the long run? Ah, Wiki, provoker of philosophical quandaries. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 16:26, 16 September 2006 (UTC) :::::::Let's just put it all in and let God sort it out. -- Danny (talk) 16:28, 16 September 2006 (UTC) ::::::::PS. Thank you, I thought we had a God page somewhere. -- Danny (talk) 16:30, 16 September 2006 (UTC) :::::::::Yeah, earlier I wanted to Wiki link Platonic, only to be reminded that we only have Aristotle (and another Aristotle, actually) but no Plato. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 16:32, 16 September 2006 (UTC) Deletion Hey pallie! Could you do me a favor and delete Uncle George. Apparently I misread, and its actually Uncle Georgie (reading Sesame Street books while watching "Born on the 4th of July" sometimes produces such effects). I moved the info, so the article can go on to the Neitherworld :) --Cantus Rock 22:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC) :Actually, all you need to do in a situation like that is hit the "move" button at the top of the page, and move "Uncle George" to "Uncle Georgie". You can also create a redirect from one page to another by putting #REDIRECT Uncle Georgie as the page's text. -- Danny (talk) 12:20, 16 September 2006 (UTC) Audio Test Hey, I'd been having a discussion with Scott over the possibility of including audio files for the international voice actors or show pages, very short clips only. Scott seemed concerned about the possibility of it encouraging mass file sharing or copyrighted song uploading, but was willing to be open-minded if it could be done unobtrusively. The main inspiration for this is the slew of international clips Henrik and others have been uploading to YouTube, but I'm reluctant to load those pages up with links to those, when the main interest is due to the dubbing anyway, because we all know YouTube links can change rapidly. Anyway, an experiment can be found at Paul Haenen (test). Take a look and listen, considering the practicality and any cons to further use of such files. I'll admit this has become a pet obsession with me, but the idea of actually being able to show visitors what the Dutch Grover or Swedish Ernie sounded like struck me as potentially useful, as well as providing a way to add to those pages, discussing vocal similarities/differences between the portrayals and the US ones. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 07:19, 15 September 2006 (UTC) :Argh, I forget how to listen to ogg files. I know I've done it in the past. :Something that occurred to me with the test page is that the ogg file looks just like any other wiki link. Readers will click that link, expecting to see a wiki page, and instead they'll get a sound clip playing. That's not always a pleasant surprise -- especially when you're working on the wiki at work. :) :I totally agree with you about the value of the idea, and also the potential pitfalls. One solution might be to set up a separate web page just for posting these sound clips, and then link to that page as an external link, the way George has done with the Bear lyrics. -- Danny (talk) 10:00, 15 September 2006 (UTC) ::I'm using Audacity to listen to ogg. And yeah, if we do go ahead with it, I've thought of creating a seperate template, like the youtube link; discreet but distinct, so you know what you're getting. Or yeah, a seperate page, but I don't know how to get webspace and all that, and my HTML skills are pretty bare, so if that seems like the best solution, I may just abandon the idea, unless I can get some help on that. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 14:18, 15 September 2006 (UTC) :::Okay, I've figured out at least a decent template start on the test page, and also tried it out with a new file at Bill Van Dijk. It occurs to me that it might work better if these were turned into bulleted voice lists, or at least seperate from the text, but apart from uncertainty of how it would look, I know Scott's concerned about drawing undue attention. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:32, 15 September 2006 (UTC) 7-Words-Max When you get a chance, take a look at Talk:7-Words-Max. Maybe it's just me, since I know I'm starting to become irrationally upset about it, but it seems that a rather trivial issue is becoming far more heated than it should be (as always, it's hard to tell on the net what others' real emotions/feelings are and how to take comments, but still, I know I'm starting to feel edgy over it). I'm hoping you can help clear it up. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 16:20, 14 September 2006 (UTC) :Hey babe. I personally don't feel like that discussion was getting heated, but I'm glad that you pointed it out to me so I could help. I just posted on 7-W-Max, and I also added to the Encyclopedia Fragglia page. Does that make things better, or no? -- Danny (talk) 17:11, 14 September 2006 (UTC) Craig Beverlin Hey, just so you know, User:Pikachu Dude, who hasn't done much so far, was reckless enough to admit that he's previously banned User:2009Crbeverlin, in his profile. So far he's just uploaded one needless image (possibly from MC, though, since that was his big pre-occupation last time) and made some pointless Family Guy edits. While this seems like grounds for blocking him again, I checked his history and see there was no message, just a "no mas." Did he contact you, or vice versa? That is, is he clearly aware why he was banned? (He should be, the image thing, but you know how some folks are). I could probably just block him right now, but I'm tired and paranoid of seeming "too judgemental." -- Andrew Leal (talk) 23:07, 13 September 2006 (UTC) :Done. "No mas" means that he was bugging me on multiple levels, and I had no patience to even describe it. It's a level of hell only reserved for Shane and Baba/SuperMuppet. I bounced him again. -- Danny (talk) 01:53, 14 September 2006 (UTC) ::Yeah, I think I finally fully remembered who he was myself; not just an image annoyance, but the "Rock It To Me" guy who kept editing the main page to stick some pointless page under Today on Muppet Wiki. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 02:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC) Danny's talk archive *Muppet Wiki Talk Archives